Alright, going to bed now, and probably going to steer clear of this cesspit for a few days, so if people are spreading lies about me hating non-neurotypical people* just because I object to the Rationalist practice of behaving as though everyone not part of the club is an underevolved proto-human who must be educated by way of socratic pontificating, liberalism, and weird, incomprehensible buzzwords into the enlightenment of their more advanced species, welllll, feel free to tell them to go fuck themselves basically and to stop coopting a serious movement to excuse shitty behavior, gross ideology, and personal vendettas.

*I’m not neurotypical you clowns

peakskeletonism said: Wait what is lesswrong?

peakcapitolism:

stormingtheivory:

A den of vipers.

Oh sorry serious answer: the place where all these “rationalists” come from. They’re all big lovers of Elizer Yudkowsky who wrote Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, and they’re really big into challenging beliefs except the belief that LessWrong is a perfect utopia of free thought.

I have one friend from there who I quite like, a couple acquaintances that seem decent, and the rest are neoliberal trash if not outright fascists.

Like here let me give you a sample of the kind of thought that passes for critical philosophy there:

Real Progressivism is Enlightenment values – like the belief that free flow of information is more important than any particular person’s desire to “cleanse” society of “unsavory” ideas. Real Reaction is the belief that free expression isn’t as important as making sure people have “the right” values. Upper-class white Reactionaries will try to enforce values protecting upper-class white people. Lower-class minority Reactionaries will try to enforce values protecting lower-class minorities. Whatever. They’re still Reactionary.

Likewise, real Progressivism is color-blind. It may be sophisticatedly color-blind, which involves realizing that just saying “I’m going to be color-blind now, okay?” doesn’t work, and that affirmative-action type policies may paradoxically lead to more genuinely color-blind results. But it would be unlikely to promote the idea that people should have racial pride, or that one particular race is evil and is not allowed to have racial pride. “White people should identify strongly with white culture; black people have no culture” is the upper-class white Reactionary slogan. “Black people should identify strongly with black culture; white people have no culture” is the lower-class minority Reactionary slogan. “Lots of races have culture but let’s ignore them and let individuals identify with what they personally like” is the academically-neglected but still-popular true Progressive position.

I feel like I don’t need to add commentary here.

So liberal as all fuck and using a massive array of formal logic in order to defend the status quo got it

Yeah basically. Unless the status quo involves not signing up for cryogenics or similar stuff basically. Yudkowsky gets very angry about people not signing up for cryogenics. Dude talks about how evolution made men and women biologically can never be satisfied in relationships together because men want sex and women want emotions but hey better challenge that status quo about cryofuckinggenics

hexmeridian:

stormingtheivory:

Can I just point out also that Ozy is 100% a deceptive, manipulative person? They have repeatedly thrown me to the wolves—deliberately misinterpreted me, started fights with me, sought out my posts to scream at, and reblogged and supported slander and lies about me—all while acting shocked that any of their followers could possibly behave badly, and shocked that they could possibly be construed as behaving in anything other than a civil way.

Ozy is not anti-harassment, that’s why they fell on the side of #gamergate. It’s a fucking political posture they’re taking in order to distance themselves from the actions of the LessWrong cult while still urging them on.

This is now an organized campaign of slander and harassment. That is where we’re at now. I am being attacked by a group that is more numerous and powerful than anything I could assemble in response, all for daring to insult 4chan one time.

How does somebody SIDE with #gamergate? I just… how can you… what? Words fail me. Words fail me utterly. 

Yeah, rationalist tumblr has definitely been a vector for at least passive support of #gamergate if not active anti-Zoe Quinn agitation. Which makes sense since there’s a lot of anti-feminists in the high ranks of the community. At best they’ve been neutral, at least ostensibly, though in practice this started because someone got pissy about me generalizing about 4chan which honestly speaks volumes I’d say.

And I’ve decided to close asks because fuck this basically. Asks may resume at a future date.

Can I just point out also that Ozy is 100% a deceptive, manipulative person? They have repeatedly thrown me to the wolves—deliberately misinterpreted me, started fights with me, sought out my posts to scream at, and reblogged and supported slander and lies about me—all while acting shocked that any of their followers could possibly behave badly, and shocked that they could possibly be construed as behaving in anything other than a civil way.

Ozy is not anti-harassment, that’s why they fell on the side of #gamergate. It’s a fucking political posture they’re taking in order to distance themselves from the actions of the LessWrong cult while still urging them on.

This is now an organized campaign of slander and harassment. That is where we’re at now. I am being attacked by a group that is more numerous and powerful than anything I could assemble in response, all for daring to insult 4chan one time.

glengi said: Oh hey, wasn't Yudkowsky the guy that wrote that first-encounter-with-aliens spec fic that was really interesting and insightful until suddenly everybody was a murderous rapist for hundreds of years? That was my first experience with LW, and boy, did it make an impression!

Yup that’s a thing that exists!

peakskeletonism said: Wait what is lesswrong?

A den of vipers.

Oh sorry serious answer: the place where all these “rationalists” come from. They’re all big lovers of Elizer Yudkowsky who wrote Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, and they’re really big into challenging beliefs except the belief that LessWrong is a perfect utopia of free thought.

I have one friend from there who I quite like, a couple acquaintances that seem decent, and the rest are neoliberal trash if not outright fascists.

Like here let me give you a sample of the kind of thought that passes for critical philosophy there:

Real Progressivism is Enlightenment values – like the belief that free flow of information is more important than any particular person’s desire to “cleanse” society of “unsavory” ideas. Real Reaction is the belief that free expression isn’t as important as making sure people have “the right” values. Upper-class white Reactionaries will try to enforce values protecting upper-class white people. Lower-class minority Reactionaries will try to enforce values protecting lower-class minorities. Whatever. They’re still Reactionary.

Likewise, real Progressivism is color-blind. It may be sophisticatedly color-blind, which involves realizing that just saying “I’m going to be color-blind now, okay?” doesn’t work, and that affirmative-action type policies may paradoxically lead to more genuinely color-blind results. But it would be unlikely to promote the idea that people should have racial pride, or that one particular race is evil and is not allowed to have racial pride. “White people should identify strongly with white culture; black people have no culture” is the upper-class white Reactionary slogan. “Black people should identify strongly with black culture; white people have no culture” is the lower-class minority Reactionary slogan. “Lots of races have culture but let’s ignore them and let individuals identify with what they personally like” is the academically-neglected but still-popular true Progressive position.

I feel like I don’t need to add commentary here.

Legitimately, I have NEVER had a more consistently unpleasant time on this website than I have in the last month and a half, and it is entirely because people from LessWrong decided I was a threat to them and needed to be crushed.

multiheaded1793 said: 1) Why the hell are you so mean to Ozy, like, even if zie did something wrong, zie is clearly a nice a compassionate person! 2) What the hell is up with your ableism and display of outright hatred towards non-neurotypicals?! that's disgusting!

God I hate this community so much, soooo fucking much.

You are the most tribalistic, ingroup-worshipping, inflexible bunch of assholes I have literally ever interacted with on this website. You cherrypick ideas from social justice just so you can prop up your shitty behavior and do everything in your power to attack, gaslight, dismiss, mock, misinterpret, mischaracterize, and slander anyone that dares say even a word against you.

Congratulations, you’ve convinced me

LessWrong is a fucking cult.

yxoque said: I'll never say that the Less Wrong community can't come off as weird or obnoxious or whatever. Posting on the main site is intimidating, even to me, and I'm pretty comfortable around the LW meme-space. The idea of "radical honesty" can often be used as a way of excusing rudeness and there's similar stuff in the community. My experience is that the further you move from the LW site (tumblr, reddit, meatspace...) the nicer people come across. I'll take a look at the RW page and see what I can say.

Also, I should probably start talking to you on google chat. I don’t know why I keep forgetting.

Also, I started skimming the RW article (not actually reading since I have company) and it seems to have been at least a bit “cleaned up” since I last visited it, so my earlier comments might have been misguided. Alternatively, when I read it in the past, I was still a lot more in a LW fanboy phase and felt the criticism a lot harder. But it does seem less snarky than I remember.

Okay, going over the page for Yudkowsky and I need to say that they made strong improvements. It used to be actual ridicule, but that seems to be mostly gone. I was going to say: “I need to update on that,” but that seemed pretty jargon-y.

This was all so much less disastrous than I thought it would be. You freaked me out man you really did :P four messages in my inbox after a post like that… it makes your heart stop you know?

I’d add a corrollary to your further-from-the-source=nicer idea that, and I’m gonna be radically honest here, the less power people have in the LW community, the less shitty their beliefs seem to be, and the less shitty their responses to sj-oriented critiques are. I was just browsing through some of Alexander’s anti-reactionary FAQ actually to explain to someone else why I dislike him and he’s actually even more of a fuckin’ neoliberal asshole than I remembered, like his ideas are so offensively bad it’s actually sickening. And then I get down to the level of like you and Sonata and while some of your behavior patterns and ways of using language are frankly kind of intimidating or come off as very imposing and demanding, you’re still people that broadly speaking I like and can have actual human-type discussions with without wanting to hurl all of humanity into the fucking sun. 

Though I wouldn’t say that necessarily holds. I mean some of the folks that don’t have a lot of power still come to me with the “HOW DARE YOU” reaction to what are strictly speaking just observations about what I’m experiencing, but I think your impression of going further from the source and my impression of going down the ladder of power leading to better conversations across disciplines is a decent predictor, though obvious #notabaysian so I can’t give you numbers on that.

And yeah, the rationalwiki pretty much backs up everything it has to say now, and it’s hard to disagree with much of its criticisms, though again some of my values are literally flopped from theirs re: wanting to be a robot :P

I’m not sure if it’s exactly a problem of being “not nice” though or at least one that folks would be able to tangibly identify as “not nice” because I don’t know that it’s obvious that certain things are in fact “not nice:” when something is kind of like gaslighting (i.e. behaving as though my perceptions of the community are “misrepresentation” or that my saying “this is an unsafe space that I would never enter because you’ve welcomed neoreactionaries who literally think I am an abomination that should be butchered and proclaimed that their ideas are not as harmful as Roko’s Basilisk” constitutes an incorrect [irrational?] emotional reaction), or when you effectively say “explain your whole heuristic for determining what articles you’re reading, and I really hope you give a satisfactory answer”, or “I demand that you use more strictly scientifically accurate language in this post expressing anger and hurt,” for three important/major examples. The impression I’ve gotten is that people in the community, or major folks at least, seem to believe that the extent to which an utterance can be “not nice” is if it has a “not nice” tone, or if it is an attack on someone, but these are also ways of asserting power and dominance and intellectual superiority/authority, and as far as I can tell they’re used indiscriminately with anyone. I’m not against using them but and this is very important I also am an asshole and have no respect for trolls. Like I… well I don’t think I actually use these strategies hardly ever because I either respect you or I’m being an asshole to you, it’s very binary, but I wouldn’t use these on someone that I didn’t feel contempt for or want to upset.

Sidenote I kinda want to say maybe don’t reblog this where big folks like Ozy can see it because a number of them really do treat me consistently with contempt whether they realize it or not and it’s just absolutely not worth it to me psychologically to deal with that. Like it is too great a drain on my resources mentally and emotionally, ESPECIALLY because as I’ve noted before neoreactionaries find this shit by way of Ozy.

Anyway those are my recent issues basically with even interacting with the community and that doesn’t even get into my frustration with the neutrality or even support of gamergate and that whole fucking disaster I mean WOW but I’ve already spent way way way too long on this when I should’ve been writing articles for my blog so time to call it a night on this I think.